Vril World War II

From IKwiki

These are the somewhat cleaned-up records and development of the 4chan Vril mech-based game. Welcome to our little trainwreck; please check your Gear Krieg at the door.

The rules discussion can be found here: Vril World War II rules

See also: Vril World War II fluff

Backstory & fluff: the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Contents

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Anonymous says:

  • I wanna see mechs airdropped on the beach at Normandy and blow the living daylights out of some Nazis. But later, the Nazi's steal one, copy it, and make their own, then share the mech-tech with the Japanese and Italians. Meanwile, we'd be making new mechs and helping Britain and Russia build their own mechs.
  • Rommel's Afrika Korps would be mech-based instead of tank-based in this universe, and would own the Allies with hit-and-run tactics, mechs hiding in the sand, and other such stuff. Soviet communist mechs would punch the shit out of the SS black-painted mechs in the streets of Stalingrad. American battleships being sliced up by Japanese mechs with enormous katanas in Pearl Harbour. I whole-heartedly endorse this idea.
  • The japanese mechs should also explode on defeat, or have the option to explode whenever they want.
  • Guernica with Mechs? It's beautiful.
  • Actually, I'm thinking the evolution of mechs would be more similar to the evolution of aviation. Starting from light, scouting machines and utilising more and more of its strategic importance. Guernica was one of the first uses of terror bombing a largely civilian population. So to mirror that... German scout Mechs entering the town, equipped with flamethrowers. Instant demoralization.
  • But the Mechs are not airplanes. Airplanes and tanks (walking tanks in this case) operate under different rules, and are affected by different laws of physics.
  • The first airplanes were light because they only needed to fly, and couldn't do that with steel plating. But tanks are supposed to be able to take shots to the face, so they NEED that steel plating.
  • Also, if Mechs are walking tanks, this means they also suffer the same mechanical evolution. At first, tanks would have heavier materials, were less sleek in design, and their weapons although not too powerful, were fairly blunt in design and use. Look at the Malcador here, it is a bucket of bolts with a lot of weapons to fire EVERYWHERE IT DAMN WELL MIGHT NEED TO.
  • Airplanes don't do that. Mechs are closer to tanks than airplanes. Ergo, Mechs ~ tanks.
  • Italyfag here. If you want to continue the WWII parallel, you should add in 'Mech-ettes'; the equivalent of the tankettes we tried fielding. Two- or three- man tincans armed with two, sometimes three machineguns. Essentially armored cars with a lot of attitude.
  • ...I said we tried to field them, I didn't say they made SENSE. :/ Our armor was underpowered, thinskinned, obsolete and poorly supplied. Only thing they had was good to excellent morale (yeah, yeah, in before all the war jokes).
  • Russian Mechs would have huge feet, and probably 4 or more legs, so they could easily travel through all the mud and snow in that place, like the Russian Tanks.
  • Spider or Crab walkers? Me like.
  • What, like a Defiler? I like that idea. Six/eight-legged spider mechs, climbing through mountainous terrain, finding a good place to start lobbing some artillery rounds. Then, if an enemy ambushes them, they just go apeshit and step on soldiers/vehicles. :D
  • Game needs to be made. I don't care if it's tabletop strategy or RPG. The AWESOME is strong in this one.
  • We need a reason for the mechs to appear at all. What scientific/magic/whateverbullshit advance made them feasible by WWII times? How did their development come about in that universe? Ideas anyone?
  • The Italian mechs would probably be extremely light with four or more legs in order to more easily cross mountainous and rough terrain.
  • Russian mechs would be huge, mobile weapon platforms with shit-thin armor, tons of guns, and a moderate speed. That way they could take advantage of the looooooong line of sight and stuff.
  • Also, as for why to have mechs in WW2 in the first place: Imagine tank shock. Now imagine "My buddy just got stepped on" shock.
  • Again: Gear Krieg does the "WWII mechs as mundane tech" thing pretty good already. I'd much prefer if the mechs here would be occult-powered death machines. Sort of like WWII Evangelion units. Powered by Theosophical or other insane magic.
  • There is ONE thing a mech could do that a tank can't. Assuming some sort of manipulators, they could shift obstacles, throw weights, and beat on things, even if they were just torsos on tread-hulls.
  • Which does not sound very impressive, until you realize that many WWII tanks couldn't go through bocage, clear prepared barricades, or pull themselves out of ditches. Maybe an origin as versatile engineering/pioneer vehicles?
  • Russian mech must look like an ugly-as-shit, utilitarian machine that looks like it was forged from a single block of steel.
  • If the engineering and tech level was sufficient to create maneuverable, fast walking tanks by WWI, I don't see how that same technology wouldn't be used to make regular treaded tanks more maneuverable, thus making mechs obsolete. I still think the mystical angle is the way to go. Have some kind of ancient technology be discovered by 1920, advanced machinery that is barely understood. Obviously, the Allies would try to reverse-engineer the technology with SCIENCE, while the Nazis would incorporate it into its occult worldview where the technology is the legacy of the ancient Aryan race or whatever. Thus resulting in completely different philosophies of mech use on the battlefield. While the Allies use them mostly as expensive regular tanks with more maneuverability etc, the Nazis build huge armored giants that lead a blitzkrieg advance (for extra loliciousness, have the pilot be a PURE ARYAN VIRGIN selected from elite Party ranks), inspiring the troops to heroism and scaring the enemy shitless.
  • A compromise? Perhaps some otherworldly technology was introduced, and its development was pioneered in mechs. This would elevate them somewhat, but only to the point of making them very useful, not god-like. They would still be treated as vehicles, but EXTREMELY good ones. Also, if the tech made them more durable, it leaves open the possibility for ace mech pilots, maybe a new "Red Baron."
  • So... WWII Gasairaki? (sp?)
  • That post is made out of fluff and win. If we can hammer out the energy/alloy, we're in business.
  • Perhaps, randomly, several notable scientists around the world suddenly got this kick ass idea for something that would make the construction of walking tanks totally feasible. Could have been inspired by aliens or what not with the knowledge of power plants strong enough to move a mech, some form of gyroscope to keep them from falling over all the time, and whatever else the mechs need for functioning.
  • Voila, you have a basis for an occult system around the fluid, but also for a scientific explanation for the more rational and sane nations.
  • Einstein was a physicist, not an engineer. However, the Germans chased off a load of other scientists, who could well have worked with hydraulics and invented the stuff needed.
  • In this universe, Albert Einstein worked at the Patent Office in Bern, Switzerland, not on electromagnetic devices but rather in the field of organic chemistry. In 1903, he recieved a patent application for the use of Vril fluid in a hydraulic joint transmission system for the creation of manipulator limbs to use on mining vehicles. Realizing the potential of the fluid, he befriended the woman inventor, Mileva Maric, and developed the Vril hydraulic system with her.
  • At the beginning of WWI, Einstein's and Maric's research, conducted in The Prussian Academy of Sciences in Berlin, was made available for the Axis powers, that used this technology to develop walker vehicles for use in trench warfare and to counter allied tanks. However, the technology soon found its way into Allied hands, and the balance of power soon shifted towards the defeat of the Axis.
  • It was during the war that the first mind-altering effects of the Vril on the pilots of vehicles using the system was observed. Basically, the fumes emitted by the fluid appeared to influence the brain of the pilot, creating a "bond" to the vehicle enabling the driver to maneuver as if the machine was an extension of the pilot's body. Some German walker pilots claimed it to be a mystical connection that transformed them into warrior spirits, embodying gods and mythical heroes of old. The most notable of these was a young pilot named Hermann Wilhelm Goering.
  • I wanted to include at least one German ace. I figure Goering got a bunch of Vril fumes and then impressed his ideas on Himmler during the post-WWI rise of the Nazi party, leading to Himmler getting all kind of crazy ideas about the Vril and its supposed connections to the Aryan soul and shit.
  • that Vril liquid you were talking about, it should be a "naturally occurring magnetorheological fluid" , which allows the use of freakishly powerful hydraulics systems that, being based on a petroleum suspension, might contain psychoactive fumes
  • As Germany was burdened with the reparations enforced in the Versailles Treaty, the Vril technology was developed further by the industrialized nations. However, due to the psychoactive properties of the flud, civilian use of the technology was limited. The Vril Society, a secret society that venerated the fluid and used it in occult rituals, merged with the Nazi party in 1921 and influenced its ideology greatly. Excavations sponsored by Ahnenerbe, the occultist branch of the SS, in Iran, confirmed that Vril was used in engine systems in prehistoric societies. This fueled the Nazi belief that Vril was a gift from Aryans long past, perhaps even the Atlantean master race they considered themselves descended from. As Vril-worship took hold in Nazi Germany, Einstein and other prominent scientists left it for the US, fearing for their life (as Jews, Communists and homosexuals were not allowed to work with Vril due to their "tainting" it).
  • As the next World War broke out, Vril walkers were used extensively by the Nazi war machine. Inspiring fear in the hearts of their opponents and bravery in the German infantry, the armored giants strode over conquered cities and provided a powerful nexus of propaganda, circulated in newsreels and photos. The Allies, quickly realizing the significance of Vril technology, furthered their own research in walkers.
  • In the Western nations, Vril Walker technology was viewed with unease. The first American and British walkers were basically tank turrets mounted on a legged platform, some equipped with rudimentary manipulators for clearing obstacles and limited engineering work. The pilot and gunner were seated in a heavily air conditioned cockpit, and care was taken to isolate the crew from the Vril fumes.
  • In the Soviet Union, early experiments on convicts generated the first Vril industrial construction vehicles. Crewed by political prisoners, these were 4-legged spider walkers used extensively in the construction of the Baikal-Amur railway and other Soviet industrial marvels. Rather than opting for a humanoid platform, Soviet engineers settled on a multi-legged insectoid base, more suitable to traversing the rough terrain of the Russian wilderness. During WWII, these walkers were hastily reconfigured into artillery platforms and sent into the front. Over the course of the war, the Ural factories developed dedicated military versions of these vehicles.
  • In this setting, Vril pilots are radically different depending on their nation. US pilots are inexperienced, fresh off their civilian mechanic or aviator jobs, afraid of the beast they now must master. British pilots are a callous lot, doing what they must for Queen and country, accepting the possibility of insanity with a grim humour. Soviet Vril Walkers are crewed by convicts on one side, and fanatical idealists on the other, willing to do anything to rid the Motherland of the fascists. Nazi Vril Knights are figures of legend, boys and girls pure as snow, selected from volunteers of the party elite, believing themselves to be reincarnations of Thor, Odin or Beowulf.
  • I can imagine what each country does.
    • Soviets make a heavly armored one.
    • US makes cheap easily-made one for mech rush.
  • I would think it'd be the reverse. The USSR spams mechs like no tomorrow, while the USA builds fewer but better quality mechs.

It would be. America has the resources to mass produce good quality mechs, the USSR is just all "AHH! MOTHERLAND!" making whatever they can.

  • I was thinking - mechs would either have to be walk-castle land-battleship affairs. Or super-moblie assult beasts capable of over 80 miles an hour.
  • That if, if you desired them to work in 'reality' in the first place.
  • But WW2 Soviet tanks were plentiful, yet top of the line monsters that could stand toe-to-toe with Tiger-II's.
  • This isn't meant to be completely realistic. I'd say this is to WW2 as DnD is to Medieval Europe. But not really. We're aiming for a quasi-plausible level of realism, but the main concern is the fact that dieselpunk mechs and use thereof is completely awesome.
  • Yes and no. Both the Soviets and the US would use large amounts of mechs, but they would have different characteristics. The soviet mechs would have heavy armor and perhaps a slight advantage in numbers. US mechs would have better crew training/moral and better off-board support.
  • Let's keep this WWII-ish. Russia had ENORMOUS amounts of unskilled labor that did as was told. America had a technological advantage and advanced, skilled industrialization.

Russians cranked out relatively crude stuff at an humongous rate at first, then improved quality as well. Towards the end of the war, they had debatably better tank designs than the US. The US started out good, and kept improving, but I doubt they matched USSR production volumewise in '44 and '45.

  • We didn't have the tech. We had the industrialization.
  • Ah, if you really want to fit in some 'history' use H.G Wells' War of the Worlds.

Upon the 'defeat' of the martian tri-pods in 1898 the alien techlogy was seized upon by the British (as the martians landed in England). Using the offensive new military super-power to strengthen their weakening empire international tentions hightened and soon global warfare broke-out.

  • You could have an RPG campaign that lasts 50 years game-time or somesuch. Your players start out as young German opratives (yeah, Germans would be the good-guys in this...) attempting to hi-jack a British walker and take it back to prussia in 1911.

Then we return to the players in 1915 as the War continues to rage, but a little more equally now the mech-technology has been created. Tanks, of course, are redundant and never invented.

  • Well, as history continues your PC's can grow old men, eventually dying as hardened 70-odd year old veterans mech-pilots in the jungles of vietnam.
  • That sounds pretty fucking awesome.
  • But not Vietnam. I can't remember it for the life of me, but that one Asian holding the Kaiser's Empire held. That or German Africa.
  • Following the line of thinking of WW2 tank design:
    • British and US mechs are built for speed, are generally reliable and easy to repair, although are not as large or heavily armed as the others. A lot of US designs are used by the British.
    • Soviet mechs are well armed and among the heaviest armored but lack sophisticated equipment (can't fire on the move) and suffer breakdowns from poor quality steel. The Soviets use British and American mechs as well under the Lend-Lease agreement.
    • German Mechs are heavily armed and armored (slightly less than the Soviets though) and well equipped, but are overengineered and prone to engine and transmission trouble.
    • Italian Mechs are left over from the 1930s and are outclassed by current models.
    • Japanese Mechs are the lightest in terms of weapons and armor, and pretty much are outclassed by all others; Japanese steel output goes largely to the Imperial Navy, and the IJA has used it's armor mostly to pacify occupied China, where anti-infantry capability matters most. The war on the islands in the Pacific is fought almost entirely by Infantry and carrier-borne aircraft.
    • The Soviets would definetly make lots of them. I mean they probably got the technology from the Nazis as part of the non-aggression pact, and were using it for agricultural and construction purposes. And I like the idea of their ones being spider and insectoid rather than humanoid (Germany) or walking tank (US/Britain).
  • I imagine the Soviet mechs would be widely used, a symbol of soviet strength, and would be made from the heaviest and strongest metal material they get their hands on. However...
  • The electrical systems would be failing constantly, they'd quickly on have to start building models that can run on things other than gas...imagine an beaten down but devoted Soviet engineer/soldier, a determiend lad of 15, fitting in a coal-burner power plant into a walker because there's no gas around.
  • You know what this makes me think of...Japanese advanced tech planes.
  • That is, instead of really having a robust mech division, they have a few experimental air-mechs and undersea-mechs, given much propaganda hype, both by themselves and the US, who fear this technology, even though the Japanese haven't perfected it and can't implement it on any large scale.
  • Propeller driven Proto-Valkyries?
  • Legged: Based on a triangle principle of balance, they are versatile and can push away or get out of most obstacles, though accidented terrain is a bugger. Many models have surrogate arms and/or shields/medium-weapons to support infantry in both frontline and rearline. One manned models are noramlly very light, and most commonly are two-manned.
  • Wheeled/tracked: Simple hidraulic wheels provides speed and reliability, in the most extended disposition of two giant armoured cartwheels delineating a triangle with soil (mud is bad). Big models can be used as heavy support and rescue vehicles, while smaller ones are ususally scouting and anti-infantry. Can be one-manned.
  • Limbed: With many hydraulic legs, sometimes whelled, they are the hardest ones to pilot. They can probably incredible pull force, and great cover in their own limbs and hull. Small models can climb and hide through accidented terrain, while large models can use their shock-absorbing limbs to sport the heaviest weapons on any kind of mech. Small models are two-manned, as a dedicated pilot is always required, while heavy model may sport up to six/seven crewmembers to use the weaponry and systems.
  • I dunno how much we figure the Vril helps the pilots, but a mech is more complex to drive than a tank, not less. And tanks had crews of four or more.
  • Also: British designs tend to be split into infantry support and armor hunting roles. The infantry support mechs are slow, heavy, armored, and packing HE low-velocity rounds. The armor hunting mechs are faster, lighter, sometimes bordering on the unarmored, and with longbarreled AP cannon. Neither design is well suited to deal with the other speciality.
  • With self-loading weapons/cannons you need one man less, i guess, and if hidraulics is what they use, they must have developed good suspensions (or legs would be very problematic).
  • Crew memebers can always be upped, but that also means mech could end up bigger than tanks, in which case, tanks are cheaper and more effective ways to wage war.
  • Realistically tanks are more effective in every way, but this being a fantasy there doesn't need to be a whole lot of justification.
  • German and Russian mechs would be as big as they could make them (you ever see a picture of the experimental german tank that's just like the most massive gun on the most massive set of treads evar?) while the US and Britain would go for smaller, mmore manueverable mecha.
  • I'd say that the US mecha, viewed more as a bizzare novelty themselves, would probably get equipped with all sorts of experimental weapons and such the Pentagon and British scientists were cooking up.
  • Heh. That would fit America...our mechs would be the most like just walking tanks and the most...standard in the war, but since they still wouldn't get much respect as anything other than an experiment, they'd get equipped with all sorts of experimental weapons ideas. And there were a LOT of whacky ideas going on during WWII, lots of strange things cooked up to get back France from the Germans, and to take out Tokyo. Heh, I remember watching a special on the "bat bomb" which got approved for use against Tokyo, but the A-bomb dropped before they got their chance.
  • Split the difference, minimum crew of two? Otherwise firing on the move would be a cast-iron bitch even for the smallest models.
  • I just wanted something to replace the track movement. Humanity simply found something so perfect for hidraulics AND motors they didn't think of making rolling hulks with tracks.
  • Well...I mean...something with legs, be it bipedal or insectoid, could navigate urban terrain. And when you think about it, every WWII movie I watch focuses on like occupied French and Italian cities and towns, with shit in the way, and the armored column not there on time because some shit got in their way.
  • So I think that if the technology existed, they would of used of walkers.
  • Like I mentioned previous, I agree with the notion that they wouldn't develop or maintain a mecha division like the other countries would be doing, as their primary concern in the Pacific is naval combat. But as I suggested earlier it'd be cool if they have a few experimental flying mechs and undersea mechs, capable of moving from one ship to another and sabotaging it.
  • well during WWII there were varoius glider project going on for unit transport and one of the weirdest ones were Japanese's So-Ra and Maede "flying tanks", a small troop support tank that was it's own glider
  • they also used old British and french WWI tanks, so I would give then some glider customized primitive WWI walkers, lightened down and tuned for troop support and drop off operations in the Philippines and south pacific
  • remember this are the guys that tried to destroy America whit weather balloons, so I'm thinking they would try aniting that seems mildly plausible, like enablig the turrets of the glider to shoot midfligt
  • zeros are too small for tank like function, but a walking gunnery position is viable, although they lacked armor for the pilots and had no self sealing fuel tanks
  • I recon than a small sized bomber like the Mitsubishi Ki-51 was a better base for a valkyrie wannabe, it was stronger and bigger, whit a small enough frame to not be odd wen it gets transformed in a plane/ trench crosser gunnery base
  • Japanese mechs would be very light for operation in the rough terrain of the Pacific. I think there are a few features you could give them to balance out the inadiquacies of their mechs. You could have several types of kamikaze mechs, like a troop of small mechs/vehicles that are extremely fast (in game terms) with a self-destruct feature. Or some diminutive mechs that hide in the terrain and pop out with some sort of heavy flamethrower or short-range mortar. Perhaps the japanese mechs are so poorly made that they don't fully shield their crews from the fumes. As a result japanese crews are psychotic/fanatical, which would perhaps give them some ability to ignore damage (as well as explain their willingness to pilot the kamikaze mechs).
  • I partly disagree, as a dedicated gunner makes fuck-all difference to the firing on the move penalty.

If the driver is the gunner as well (which we sort of agreed to avoid in earlier threads), he gets to split his attention on two things at once, but he can do gross aiming adjustments by driving how he wants. If there is a dedicated gunner, he gets to aim, but he has to adjust for unpredictable driver movement. As far as I know, WWII tanks had real trouble firing on the move until gyroscopes were fitted to them, and even then the default was going still for a few moments until the shot had been taken.

  • I agree on artillery move-or-fire, as long as we want any sort of accuracy as opposed to 'blow shit up that way'.
  • WWII war tank veterans disagree with you. Not many. Often not whole. But they do.
  • I'm talking about shrapnel, armor flaking and 'grazing' hits, mind. If even a pathetic antitank round goes right through your main body, you're gone effectiveness/survivalwise. But a cockpit hit is not necessarily a crew kill.
  • In the end, it depends how much of a 'zoom' you want on things. Larger engagements will probably require a cockpit hit=kill entry on some future table, but RPGsized ones should give better detail.

I imagine the mech needs stats for armor and toughness etc. Since we need to determine how it gets blown up. The pilots need stats to level up and become aces, and I for one would like to see some kind of rules for getting the fuck off the mech before/while it's being destroyed.

We could create special rules for Vril that modified the capabilities of their mechs through different ways that wouldn't really be "OMG TEH MAGIC ENERGY!", but still hot blooded.

Like, say, rushing at the enemy and invoking luck to make all/most of the enemy shooting glance off the armor for a whole turn, a power that could only work once per battle and if the attacker is within charge range.

Allow me to clarify: When the enemy shoots at you, you have TWO chances to reduce/shrug off damage.

First, evading the enemy shots. Think of all those animes in which the Mechs side-step, in or out of cover, to avoid being hit. You use Agility to avoid these attacks, and using Small Mechas allows you to use the special rule for speed (basically, bonuses we could implement later on to movement and agility on small Mechas to make up for the reduced weaponry they can have). Having success on your agility roll allows you avoid the attack completely, or at least reduce the damage you receive (if the weapon used against you is something like artillery, light or heavy).

The second chance is the armor value of the Mech, and if it is able to shrug off the hits, or suffers damage. Again, although light Mechas are not too resistant, they can use their extra speed to navigate the field seeking for the best moment to attack.

Sure, using light Mechas might suck at first, but if you use them with intelligence, you might be able to destroy the enemy. Think of an army made only of these guys like you would think of Dark Eldar. Fast, maneuverable, but also fragile like paper.

  • So far we have the following:
    • Britain/US: Predominantly tank turrets on chicken walker platform (2 legs), some engineering mechs include arms as well.
    • Japan: Either cardboard-thin diesel burning things given to grunts to rush the enemy or transforming prop planes for the officers. 2 legs here as well.
    • Soviet Union: Spider walkers, artillery and transports. Some are close-combat as well. Configuration ranges from 4 to 6 legs and manipulators/claws.
    • Germany: Bipedal heavy amored mechs, design inspired by Teutonic knight armor.
  • So can Russia have the Soviet Centipede? crazy multi-legged walker with enough legs to speed through rough terrain like snow?
  • Are you talking about that thing in Strider? That's a later, Cold War development.
  • Very possible, but a long train-type mech wouldn't exactly be practical. Maybe for transporting supplies and/or troops through snowy mountainous terrain.
  • So the Soviet Centipede would be their off track train like mech that runs supplies to the front line, and through normally impassable terrain.
  • Hell yeah. In fact, centipede-style trains should be common in the Soviet Union, since they have no problem with exposing their civilian population to Vril.
  • It could work. Also, if you're intrigued by the concept of abnormal mechs, Britain has amphibious mechs and Japan has a few early prototype transforming mechs. =]
  • This just officially got awesome. So these vril powered machines are work horses basically, they are fast moving and lightly armored transports, their made of mobility, not any fighting strength.
  • I would assume they are too light to carry any serious fire power, but if one were to be outfitted for war it would probably only carry a small gattling gun.
  • If we go with the centipede being a train, you could easily attach different sections to it. Artillery, transport, supply, etc.
  • Alternatively, a heavier version of these could be retrofitted with guns instead of cargo. Think of it. A long mech stomping by, sideswiping infantry and vehicles with a hail of gunfire.
  • Heh. If the Soviets are employing lots of strong but poorly designed vril-machines, aren't they going to be exposing a lot of their rather industrial-loving loyal Soviets to vril fumes?
  • I hate to think what effect that's going to have on future offspring. Womb-vrilified babies growing up to be cold war terrors.
  • Heck, maybe it'll give them an edge in the cold war. Maybe the children of people exposed to much and too long to vril have some natural resistance to it, able to use it more with less risk of going mad or whatever.
  • Also, as for the Japamechs, what i had originally suggested weren't actually transforming vehicles, but bassically small mechanized undersea and air craft, which would work best in the Pacific Theatre. So like the flying one would be like a permanently Gerwalk/Gaurdian mode Veritech..and then for an undersea one I just love the idea of a subwalker planting explosives on the undercarriage of a Allied destroyer.
  • I have a thing with armored trains. They are my favorite weapon.
  • The greatest disadvantage with them are that they stick out like a needle in the eye and they are really vulnerable to aerial attacks :( Which is really sad though.
  • How fast are these mechs gonna be? And how big? Because if those centipedes are gonna be huge lumbering things made out of steel and go like 10 kmp/h when crawling around off tracks, then it's obvious that once you get a leg blown off with an aerial bomb run (or mines?!), then that centipede will turn into a sitting duck D: And that would be a real let-down, don't you think?
  • Well, Vril tends to unhinge people. It warps their perception of the world. Mech pilots think that their mechs are basically part of them. They become connected with them. Not sure how fumes would affect local civilian population, though.
  • Good ideas all. I think a limited degree of transformation is required for the mech to actually be able to fly at all. Or move when it lands, for that matter.
  • About the Soviet Vril: Well, with proper indoctrination it can make the pilots into fanatical soldiers convinced that the Motherland herself has given them her blessing, and who hallucinate Stalin smiling at them whenever they score a hit on an enemy. Needless to say, post-war Soviet society is going to be a bit... strange when they all come home.
  • I like amphibious mechs to be basically large diving suits with propellers that can operate on land as well, making them the ultimate Marine vehicle.
  • Nice thoughts on the amphibious mechs. I can imagine German u-boats getting turned to jetsam by mech-launched torpedoes.
  • Well, that's the whole disadvantage of trains, you know? They're big, and since you know where the track are, you can disable or destroy them easily with bombing runs. This is where I think centipedes have an advantage, they can go off the track, making them harder to pinpoint. Well, as hard as a huge train walking through a forest will be, anyway.
  • Yeah but how hard can it be to drop a bomb on a train-sized centipede?
  • They don't sound like they are really fast.
  • It's just that if you get a (few) leg(s) off from this centipede, then the centipede would simply collapse on it's own weight.
  • Or put them through swampy terrains...
  • And what is this vril thing anyway? Is it a lightweight material these mechs are built of?
  • I would say that it would come in 3 models, your standard, kinda slow, heavy armor, and good mobility.
  • a lighter, faster, but more easily destroyed one (recon train!)
  • and a heavier actually outfitted for combat model.
  • Can we have the japanese have "suicide" drop pods? like they have 1 mech carrying another, and it dives down and delivers this thing straight onto the battle ship to wreak havoc.
  • The pod lands, it bursts open in a blast of steam (scalding any unlucky troop nearby) and their mech walks out holding as much ship wrecking weapons as possible.
  • They're too heavy to actually swim, and cannot survive oceanic pressures-- so the pilot has nothing to lose.
  • That's sort of cool. Making it cost-effective...
  • How hard is it to bomb them? Not hard at all. The trick is knowing where to send the bombers in the first place - thus the advantage over trains.
  • And they're probably built like soviet tanks - simple and rugged. They could probably lose near half of their legs and still move (provided the legs were lost relatively evenly over the length of the mech).
  • I like that idea. Maybe just a bomber carrying a drop-pod, though, instead of another mech.
  • Alright so Japanese bombers with kamakazi drop pods, who are on a war path mission to destroy as much of the ship before they die.
  • Also, lets have these kamakazi drop pod mechs have a timed explosive in them, upon exiting the bomber, EVEN if they are disabled, they still have an explosive armed and ready.
  • Nice, so they are easy to hit, but elusive, going beyond the normal train tracks.
  • This looks incredibly fun to model, I've always wanted some break away from all the annoying standard tanks from 40k in a good war game, and I think this is it. Question though, Are we looking at all spider like mechs, 2 legged, or a mix up with about every number of legs imaginable?


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Lil piece o'fluff. says:

Don't over-do the mechas, guys.

Go for simple, proven, effective, and flavourful.

For example:

  • Americans- The Americans probably have more Mechs than everybody, armed with 75mm cannons and one or two machineguns. Medium Mechs, nothing special. They would probably be paired up with M5 Stuarts to act as their scouts (Mechs are VERY HIGH PROFILE TARGETS, as in, they are so tall they are easy to see).
  • Germans- Heavier, better armored Mechs, and work more with mechanized infantry than with scouts. Their scouts would be mounted on motorbikes, and the Germans would have all kinds of different Mechs to face different challenges like rivers or Russian infantry assaults. Mechs armed with multiple machineguns instead of cannons, etc...
  • British- As said, Mechs with somewhat amphibious capabilities. Transforming them into planes is retarded, though. The British would probably have VERY LIGHT Mechs, and then VERY HEAVY Mechs. The first for commando operations, the second for regular battles.
  • French- If we go for historical accuracy, these Mechs are probably heavier and slower, but better armoured and armed. These would be all about holding the line, or advancing very slowly. Think... BANEBLADES, FUCK YEAH.
  • Italians- Low quality Mechs, I guess. Maybe good for mountain operations.
  • Russians- Light, but with heavy cannons. Numbers over quality. Imagine fifty Russian Mechs with 80mm cannons advancing towards your measly ten Sherman Mechs. That said, if you want to add tanks into the mix, the Russians would use more tanks than Mechs, given the topography of their homeland.
  • Japs- Going for Katanas is a must, isn't it? These are probably lighter than other Mechs, but they are squatted in comparison to other, taller Mechs, which probably gives them the advantage in jungle fighting.

But yeah, if you approached it from a WH40K-like perspective, and imagined huge, primitive Mechs unleashing barrage after barrage of heavy artillery rounds to raze whole cities to the ground... yes, that's quite cool.

And it would lead to the natural technological advances that would make those huge, sluggish, slow, mechanically unreliable machines from the past into the fast, reliable, smaller models of the future. The past being this Civil War, and the future being WWII.

This is why I suggested that the Americans would use M5 Stuarts to scout ahead. Low, small, fast, and are tanks so they are pretty good for most terrains.

Also, for artillery tanks, I find merit in the Shagohod, the Metal Gear from Metal Gear Solid 3.

Just change the drills in the forward legs for something like... well... metallic claws. Basically, the tank, more than rolling up the mountain, DRAGS itself up. Sinking huge claws into the ground, it then propells itself forward and up with the tracks on the rear, and the claws forward. On top of the legs, you can put machineguns, so infantry divisions are fucked.

On the rear, you can put any manner of artillery pieces, and even multiple cannons instead of just one.

I imagine this kind of Mech would be perfect for the Russians, or even the Germans. But definitely as a kind of Final Boss for a mission, or something like that.

We would need to create classes based on what different kinds of mechs can do. Then, create the mechs within each class, figuring out what classes different nations would use.

Then, rules for contemporary weaponry (the ever-feared 88, rules for attacking lightly armored, medium armored, heavily armoured, and extremely heavily armoured vehicles, infantry combat, etc...).

And also, a basic background for the game. Before World War Two (Spanish Civil War, for example) and during World War Two (how things have changed, etc...). Along the way, we must decide WHEN this takes place, WHERE, and HOW. The WHOs are good to pick out too.

Yeah, somewhat realistic tanks, only walking, are fine too. After all, if you want tanks in World War Two, that is the kind of thing you want.

For starters, let us think of how the idea of walking tanks came to life, and other details:

  1. - Do walking tanks exist along with normal tanks?
  2. - If the answer is yes, are they the same models, or have the normal tanks changed?
  3. - If the tanks haven't changed, do we have EXACTLY the same kinds of tanks as in WWII? Or just a few models?

This one sounds good, and could tie up with WWI. The first tanks were nightmares when it came to mobility and mechanics, so I could see the British and the Americans wanting something more reliable on both fields. The first walking tanks were, of course, shit, but afterwards...

That said, what kind of RPG do we want to create, guys? Strategic? Semi-strategic (with characters controlling whole units) ? Or first person, as usual?

The whole idea is that LEGS are what makes them work in a different, and better considered by the generals, way.

That said, your ideas of Nazi occultism are kinda interesting... mmmmmyyessss... perhaps something could be worked out. But I don't think it should be some kind of energy, but something else. New energies sound CORNY AS HELL.

Perhaps new, lighter alloys that increase response in the hydraulics systems, thus making the Mechs faster in response and movement, would be better. Or a harder alloy that worked better as armour, while being as heavy as the normal one, or even lighter. This angle reduces a bit the silliness factor.

Perhaps the Nazi occultism could be changed to something else. For example, perhaps the Nazis have developed a way to link the pilot directly to the machine, making him an even better pilot (thus proving that SUPERIOR RACE IS SUPERIOR) than all other nations could have, at the cost of his life if the machine is destroyed.

[edit]

Einstein.

Have Einstein come up with the idea, a la Command & Conquer: Red Alert. Then, he disappears all of a sudden with all of his scientists team, to an unknown location. What he is doing, or even if he is still alive, is a mystery...

Again, Einstein. Then Hitler finds out he is a jew, and steals the Vril. Einstein gets away from Germany carrying the Vril formula away with him, while Hitler replicates it in Germany.

This explains how the Vril reaches all parts of the world, and it serves as an explanation of the "experience gaining" capabilities of the pilots. The Vril, sooner or later, establishes links to the pilot's mind, which become stronger over time...

As for the nazi occultism, simple. Einstein names the liquid after the Vril book, but Hitler takes this literally and pursues jews with a vengeance, believing them to ALSO be thieves of technology that does not belong to them.

>The most notable of these was a young pilot named Hermann Wilhelm Goering.

OH SHI-

Yeah, that's a nice touch right there. But let's avoid turning every single known Nazi figure into a combatant, Ok? Not saying about Goering, mind you. I do think he was an ace in the Luftwaffe.


[edit]

Dagda says:

It has the appropriate flavor and designs, it's worth a look. I'll offer my own take in the nations in a bit, building on what's been posted so far. Will this game also be including infantry, traditional armor, etc? They'd be less advanced due to the increased Walker research, probably.

My two cents: Seems like we have Limbed (humanoid) mecha, Legged (nonhumanoid) mecha, tanks (tougher than mechs but easier targets, less advanced because most people are researching mecha instead), mechanized infantry (accompanying mecha/armor) and light infantry (designed to work on their own). Drawing on what’s been posted here and the historical status of the nations, here’s my proposed breakdown for the different sides:

  • Germany: They can’t quite match the production capabilities and firepower of many of the other nations, but their mechs are reliable and their crews experienced. Germany emphasizes a combined-arms doctrine and has capable forces of all types; the three areas in which they outdo all others are mechanized infantry, coordination and overall mobility, allowing them to take down foes who are better armed and armored through superior tactical employment of their own forces.

Japan: Although outdone by the US with regards to firepower, Japan fields numerous cost-effective humanoid mecha of all sorts, and has turned their freshly-conquered regions of China into a formidable war machine. The diversity and effectiveness of their humanoid mech forces stems in large part from their use of transforming multi-function models; unlike other nations, these designs have moved out of the experimental phase and into full production.

  • United Kingdom: Kingdom: Britain is the least mech-reliant of the five major powers, having invested more research in wheeled and tracked vehicles as well as infantry anti-armor and anti-walker implements. Their prevalent mechs are largely light and medium nonhumanoid walkers suited for artillery and anti-air roles as well as infantry support. They frequently supplement their forces with limited numbers of new experimental units.
  • Russia: Russia’s superior production gives it a numerical advantage. Their nonhumanoid mechs are very cost-efficient, though they have a relatively small number of designs that are only updated when there is a large benefit to be had (thus allowing continued mass production). Unlike most other armies, their legged mecha are designed for front-line combat and are noticeably more proficient in close quarters (bladed legs, perhaps, as a design trade-off for not being able to put large turrets on all of them). They’re the most mech-reliant army, shoddy equipment and poor training plaguing the other aspects of their forces.
  • United States: The US mechs have an advantage in terms of customizability and equipment- they have several reliable limbed walker designs that they mass produce, which in turn can be fitted with numerous attachments. On the other hand, they have almost nothing in the way of tanks and much of their impressive equipment is still in the experimental phase, leading to reliability issues.

I'm thinking this through from a tabletop wargame perspective, in case this wasn't evident. With regards to other European nations, units from the Allied ones would fall under Britain while units from the Axis ones would be used in German forces.

Let's say that Japan's success with transforming mecha, as outlined in >>297223, leads to the most significant alteration in the course of the war. With new mecha designs deploying to support their front lines on a gradually increasing basis, the Japanese invasion of China during the 1930s was an extreme success; in many cases they were able to sever communications and acquire enemy munitions and facilities without giving their foes a chance to sabotage them. By 1940 Japan had taken Beijing and was already planning their actions so as to capably fight a war on two fronts. The attack on Pearl Harbor is not a bombing run but an invasion, with Japanese fighters clearing the way for hundreds of Valkyrie airborne walkers. Hawaii would become a vicious battleground over the years that followed, as American forces fought to reclaim Japan's newly-erected stronghold with which they sought to control the Pacific. Japanese raids on the US's west coast were common, and despite rising tensions with Russia they were preparing to invade the mainland United States.

Some further notes about the ideas in my head while I'm at it: -Russia has the biggest mechs, since the "giant centipede" model idea is just too badass. I really want to have it take up 2 adjacent hexes, or maybe even more. -In the majority of mechs, all weapons are attached. Japan, however, has the majority of its humanoid mechs using weapons they hold in their hands. -The US's heaviest mechs are two-legged but nonhumanoid, like those in mechwarrior or Battlefield 2142. -British infantry have several risky but ingenious anti-mech devices and strategies (think ewoks fighting the imperials on Endor). Examples include sticky bombs and pairs of light walkers attempting to trip enemy two-legged walkers using a steel cable stretched between them. -Germany's forces are the only ones to deliberately employ psycholagical warfare tactics in the heat of combat, with several ways of forcing enemies to make shock checks.

[edit]

Karpad says:

did you miss "Prop plane proto-Valkyries?"

a japanese technologist began experimenting with shifting forms, basically producing a Zero version of a Valkyrie from macross, capible of only shifting between plane and guardian modes. it's primary purpose was a light tank equivalent that could be moved to small islands readily, and the defend ground positions while there. This turns out to be an excellent use of resources, as when they're on the ground at the bases, planes are targets. because they can work as light tanks, they can be used to reenforce the infantry on island hopping campaigns.

[edit]

Ishallcallu says:

Maybe there could be specific classes of mechs. Street Sweepers, for instance, could function like an APU from The Matrix, or perhaps a Hellfire Dread. I was thinking 2 twin linked assault cannons. Then maybe there would be the larger autocannon for medium vehicles, and eventually, you'd have the (super?) heavy mechs mounting the 70's, 88's, and maybe even 155 caliber guns.

Adding some more. Pretty much a repost, but this is just serving for me to get ideas out so I can work on them at a later time.

Italy seems to be pretty gimpy. This makes a for a worse game if it's obvious that one race/nation/type of mech just totally sucks balls. Perhaps Italian mechs are like lighter versions of thier German cousins. Maybe about 20 feet tall, a bit stocky, sturdy, and rugged. They do have to make it through, past, around, and in mountains.

Germans need a definite human shaped mech. Something as "perfect" as possible, which is going to mean fully articulated arms and legs, as opposed to what I see the other mechs as; just like a heavy weapons hardpoint on a Dreadnaught. They're going to be fully capable of picking things up/dropping them. Perhaps some crazy crazy bastard elite pilots who're all vril'd up get a special (power?) sword kind of thing.

We seem to be on the trend that US made starts as (shiity? lesser quality, I think), but get all sorts of crazy shit R&D weapons.

My personal favorite: An early type guass/pulse rifle. Like a 75mm tank cannon, but instead fires essentailly XBOX HUEG rifle rounds (exclusively for armor busting? It's nice to imagine it that way...)

that's all for now, more to come when it's not so late.

[edit]

Dargun says:

If the Russians are going to have a centipede-style mech design, later models (or perhaps all models) should have a set of drop-down railway wheels mounted on the underside of the body. This would allow for greater mobility in some parts of Russia. Additionally, assuming the Russians used these machines for construction and agriculture, it might make sense that these centipedes have a flat sheet-metal top, which additional large-scale weapons can be mounted onto, as well as ammo/food supplies giving the Russian mech a powerful ability to strike far away, almost like what the Germans did with that gigantic rail-mounted gun.


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Required Reading

[[2]] [[3]] [4] <- while not REQUIRED, very useful

[edit]

Most popular concepts

Now that the threads and the Wiki have been up for a few days and most everyone has had a chance to chip in, I'm going to start listing here what seem to be the most recurring concepts. If there are no objections, we can then start treating these as 'canon' and throwing out the odd ones out. User:Silentcook

  • Well, it's been established that Russia makes use of multi-legged (4-8) mechs, and that some earlier mechs and newer scout mechs are simple two-legged walkers. The rest, though, have two legs and arm-type limbs.
  • well the more commonplace you make them the less god super weapon they become, I always like them just being a new type of unit to complement tanks and still have pros and cons when compared to a tank (falling must suck hard).
  • The Vril fluid is a petroleum derivative with very special properties, enabling it to serve as an almost perfect hydraulic fluid. Unlike other petroleum compounds, Vril does not easily combust, making it an ideal fluid for power transmission in an engine. Vril was discovered accidentally by British petroleum scientists working in Iranian oil fields in the late 19th century, however its true significance remained unexploited until the early 20th century.
  • If you want to get some more history flavour into this, add the Spanish Civil War into the game's history. Spain (which is incidentally my country) served as the testing grounds for the tactics and machines that would be used later in World War Two, so adding some info on how it went with these new technologies would be interesting.
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Canonized

  • Mechs have been invented late in WWI as a superior engineer/trench-crossing vehicle. Simple, lightly armored ones, like AT-STs, but mechs nontheless. The following decade and Spanish Civil War lead to their further development as weapons.
  • The hydraulics system itself was the advance that was needed to develop mechs. Vril, a highly compressible fluid that is able to store large amounts of energy and is easily manipulated with little effort, eased the development of hydraulic systems tremendously and allowed the construction of complex mechanisms like mech limbs, while doing relatively little to advance tank technology.
  • Mechs are good, useful war machines within the armored warfare specialization, not 'God robots'. They are in the ten to thirty feet size range. The advantage of the Mech is that, in theory, its use of legs over tracks allows it to cross difficult terrain. However, they still would not be fast enough. Scouts need to be fast and all-terrain, and early mechs would fail at the former, AND at the latter until they are refined.
  • Vril fumes emitted by the fluid appear to influence the brain of the mech crews, enabling them to maneuver the machine much better than a driven vehicle ought to be.
  • Japan is a greater power than it used to be, having conquered considerable tracts of China to fuel its war machine. In reality, Japan was seizing chinese territory throughout the 30s and began a full scale invasion in 1937 following the Marco Polo Bridge Incident; they advanced swiftly down China's east coast and took several major cities, including China's capital. In this alternate history, instead of armor they have these extremely effective vril-powered limbed walkers which can quickly deploy. They invade China in full force five years earlier than in reality, seizing much of the enemy's territory; when the year 1940 begins China is a third of its former size and a fraction of its former military strength. Japan's already mustering their forces to invade the pacific as well as other neighboring countries. Their mechs are split into two main groups: the ground types, average and unimpressive; and the transformable air types, unique if experimental and few in number.
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